Andy Nolch & Alanzo on The Destructive Contradictions of Atheism

Andy Nolch is an Independent Scientologist who is not afraid to acknowledge the bad in Scientology. I think it is very important to support and encourage Indie Scientologists like Andy and others because a Scientologist who can acknowledge the bad, I believe, can be trusted to not dramatize it in Hubbard’s policies and tech, and is very likely to create a version of Scientology without the abuse in it.

Plus they provide a better form of Scientology for those interested in it, thus draining business from the Church and forcing them to change or just give up.

In this 12 minute long edit of our 3 hour epic, we discuss atheists, atheism, the limits of science, and we even cut Chris Shelton some slack.

To listen to the whole three hour podcast, go to the Indie Scientology Podcast and search for Episode #13.

I’ll be editing and putting up other snippets with my conversation with Andy.

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31 Comments on "Andy Nolch & Alanzo on The Destructive Contradictions of Atheism"

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Virginia McClaughry

I have never really understood the premises by Atheists or of Atheism for many of the very points you two are discussing.

Even if I didn’t believe in the god of most religions, I wouldn’t then jump to a flat out against anything even vaguely spiritual. The two just don’t follow logically.

As to Shelton, I couldn’t agree more. I was in the Sea Org, and I didn’t do “bad things” – it’s not a given – lol. So when people complain about that they were MADE to do so I kind of arch an eyebrow at it because I know that’s bullshit. I refused to do things that were destructive to others or myself and I successfully held my ground, so it’s not an automatic thing that sea org member equals forced to become destructive. I think it’s a bit of a denial-fest when people try to shift all the responsibility that way, and I think Chris may be doing some of that about his own experiences.

Thanks for doing this Alanzo and Andy.


There doesn’t seem to be a way to speed up the playback so I’ll wait for the snippets. Get to work, Alanzo. 🙂


oops – I didn’t see the snippet. I guess I hit Indie Scientology Podcast button first and thought that was it. Old age comes upon me. 🙁
It’s easy to be an atheist. Atheism is probably the most simplistic of all beliefs. Proving it to everyone else is the problem. Too many people have had transcendental and religious experiences. I wonder if Doubting Thomas stuck with his experience or went back to thinking it was an illusion. I think religious experiences and past life memories are usually later questioned by the person experiencing them. Maybe it’s best to just leave them as a “maybe”.

Good People

Great job Alanzo. You make a very good subtle point. That being, atheists are also operating on a belief system. My personal opinion is, if all these theories we have are ‘beliefs’. Then I am rooting for the ‘beliefs’ that will have the most positive effect on living beings. To me those would be Karmic Law, Interdependence & Reincarnation.

Alanzo, You mentioned you are a mutual fan of Bob Thurman. If you get a chance go on his podcast and listen to the first ten minute of episode #66. I think you’ll get a kick out of it.

Peace Brother.


ok, so if I’m a atheist or agnostic, which would mean I don’t believe in god or don’t know if this thing called god exists,

and you and Andy say that is a belief as well,

ok I get it. We can’t disprove the existence of god.

Great, now what?

The two sides will be debating or arguing until the proof is shown or not shown,


Virginia McClaughry

But why should they be debating and arguing? Is that the only possibility?


As the Guru said, “That chic just talked to Krishna and now she’s debating it. Yikes!” Gurus are cool.


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