Alanzo the “Ex Ex Scientologist” Speaks to Andy Nolch on the Indie Scientology Podcast

This is the first 33 minutes of a 3 hour long, very wide ranging discussion I had with Andy Nolch on Sunday 9 April 2017.

I hope to get the full video because Andy asked me some very good questions that show he is a free thinking guy – not just a Kool-Aide Scientologist. We didn’t agree on everything and that was totally okay. He and I discussed the abuses in the Church and some of the abuses built into the tech itself, some of LRH’s lies, etc.

Andy did a great job handling this kind of critical information and if he is the kind of Scientologist that is emerging in the Independent Scientology field, then the future looks bright for Scientology.

Well, Independent Scientology, that is.

Topics covered include:

– The business that has sprung up surrounding being a critic of Scientology
– The difference between being in the Sea Org and being just a regular Scientologist
– What popularity has to do with being a critic and how that goes against being able to speak the truth
– etc.

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73 Comments on "Alanzo the “Ex Ex Scientologist” Speaks to Andy Nolch on the Indie Scientology Podcast"

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Gib
Guest

I haven’t listened to your vid yet, but I will, but I’ll comment on this what you wrote:

“Andy did a great job handling this kind of critical information and if he is the kind of Scientologist that is emerging in the Independent Scientology field, then the future looks bright for Scientology.”

How on earth do you figure that? There are no clears or OT’s.

Lone Star
Guest

(In my best Ronald Reagan voice) “Well Gib….there you go again…” Heh heh… Okay, kidding aside, I agree that there are no clears or OTs. Like you I personally know “clears and OTs”, and if those states ARE real then I’d rather be an un-clear and an un-operating thetan. Let’s just say I’m not impressed with the final product.

Now, can someone be a Scientologist, or pursue Scientology even though the states of clear and OT do not exist? I think so. Christians are practicing their faith even though when they die their concept of the afterlife will not be awaiting them. No St. Peter at the pearly gates, in other words. Many other things that Christians believe are not technically real. But they practice the tenets of the faith and feel that they benefit from it. You can say the same for any religion. And every religion has had very bad things done by adherents. That’s because religions are all created by humans, and we humans are quite…fucked…up. A mixture of good and evil is the best we collectively have to offer.

Scientologists have faith that the states of clear and OT exist and are attainable. Christians believe that they will go to heaven and be spared from eternal torment. Orthodox Jews believe that their Messiah will come and set up the Temple and make Israel the leading nation on earth forever one day. Buddhists believe that they can eventually reach Nirvana and be free from the cycle of death and rebirth.

I believe that they’re all pursuing unobtainable goals based on no evidence other than their personal faith. As long as they don’t hurt me with their faith, I don’t really care what they think or believe. To me the belief in Clear and OT isn’t the dangerous part of Scientology. It’s the Ethics and Admin tech of LRH that causes the most trouble. Not to mention the PTS/SP tech, which really goes hand-in-hand with the Ethics aspect. The Catholic Church is most dangerous when they practice their “heresy tech”. Also the celebate priesthood is a big problem for obvious reasons. But praying to Mary and the Saints, believing in Heaven, Purgatory, and such is pretty benign.

Oh, and uhhhh….Hail Satan!!

Richard
Guest

My pressure washer ain’t working and my cable box went on the blink. Bad things ALWAYS come in threes. What’s next? Xenu help me.

Richard
Guest

My above comment was an attempt to add superstition into the mix. Good comment, Lone Star. Hail Satan and Darth Vadir

Gib
Guest

I gave my response on ESMB.

I wish you and Alanzo well.

I do believe the worst part of scientology is what you said

“To me the belief in Clear and OT isn’t the dangerous part of Scientology”

I think that is the worst part of scientology.

That belief creates delusions.

Lone Star
Guest

All the best to you as well Gib. Listen, I do know that you care about people and your concern is your motivation in exposing Scientology.

Claire M Swazey
Guest

We need like buttons. Cuz I like this post.

Claire M Swazey
Guest

Well, I know you said on ESMB that you didn’t wanna come here anymore or, at least, didn’t wanna dialogue with Al… but I will say something.

You often remark that there are no clears and OTs. It’s a point you make quite frequently. I even remember your following me around ESMB pushing me on it.

And, yeah, I’ve never met or heard of anyone who could consistently do all those thing clears, OTs, and even grade comps are supposed to be able to do. I get it. I think most people-including Freezoners I know- get it.

But some people like pursuing the subject outside CofS. They feel *something* happened to them in auditing and that they’ve noticed some effects.

Just as you mention (or used to, anyway) the benefits of Idenics, so do other people have an interest in pursuing methods that seem interesting to them.

The Oracle
Guest

You are so damned brave and self determined. Laughter!! Alanzo goes rogue again! Laughter! Loved listening! Loved it! Thanks for posting! Finally, a video with , with someone SMILING!! XXOO

Virginia McClaughry
Guest

It was nice to see you Alanzo. 🙂

gtsix
Guest

You’ll want to sync the video/sound better, for future videos.

Athiests are irrational. Fascinating.

The ending was hilarious.

statpush
Guest

I’ve changed my opinion of Andy. I thought you both did very well. Looking forward to the next installment.

Richard
Guest

Very nice video. It covers a lot of ground and scio history. It was conversational so I used the settings tool and listened at 1.5 speed. It’s no big deal to me if the voice is out of sync if it’s a PITA* to adjust it.

*Pain In The Ass

Lone Star
Guest

Oh man. Gib on ESMB just showed where he and the majority of active ESMBers are coming from with respects to shutting down people’s individual right to pursue whatever religion, philosophy, or yes “crazy shit” they desire. I believe he was mostly replying on ESMB to my post on this thread earlier,

Here’s the pertinent paragraph by Gib:

“Lone Star, you agreed in your reply to me on Alanzo blog, that there are no clears or OT’s. Do you really think it’s OK to let people read and study LRH books, lectures, training, auditing for a long time whether in the corporate COS or Indie for a false purpose or false belief or even right as a citizen to believe in a false outcome of clear or OT?”

Wow! Do I think it’s OK to LET people read and study LRH books, lectures, and so forth? Let? I’m sorry, but who died and made me, Gib, and all other critics and exes the boss of deciding what books, lectures, organizations, etc… are in essence “legal”? Do you see the mindset here folks? And Hoaxie came in and praised Gib’s post. Of course it’s been apparent for a long time that if the core of active ESMBers had their way they would use the force of government, or some kind of force, to shut down ALL forms of Scientology. Period. I think they even feel more frustration and rage toward the Indys than they do the Corporate Culties. It infuriates and offends them that someone would even think of practicing Scilonism after leaving the Corporate Cult. Folks over there at ESMB land need get over it. Get over yourselves too. Someone going to an Indy org in East Bumblefuck, Wherever won’t threaten your life or freedom. Not even in the way you threaten theirs. Or would like to anyway.

FWIW I am not an Indy. I do not like LRH or his “tech”. I do not care for auditing or Scientology in general at all. I don’t listen to Hubtard lectures or read his books. I own not one thing authored by him anymore. I don’t have any Indy material or association either. But those who do, then so fucking what? It’s none of my business. Lots of people everywhere do things I don’t agree with. I do things others don’t agree with. It’s called being in a wide society.

But hey, keep furiously pounding on your keyboards, day dreaming of controlling others, if it makes you feel better. Thankfully ESMB doesn’t have any type of governmental authority. The Police State mindset is really taking hold in the West I’ve noticed over the past few years. Not just with the Scilon critic and ex community. All across the spectrum of society more and more people and organizations are calling for censorship and control. From the left, right, and even in the middle. Amazing. I think it goes hand in hand with the fact that the American Empire is in deep decline. (Looking at this from a broad perspective). The democracies in general are failing. Before it all comes down I fear that we will experience a full blown Police State. And some of you reading this will be fully on board with it. It’s a “Brave New World” we are entering into.

And no, I am not banned from ESMB. And I do totally understand Ad Hom. Yes I’ve done my share. But Gib, Hoax, and many of you over there are masters of it. Relish in it even. But it’s okay when you do it. I forgot. Its for the greater good.

Lone Star
Guest

In all honesty the more I check into this Andy Nolch guy the more creeped out I feel. He may be an Indy, but he’s very extreme with his Hubbardian views.

Eileen
Guest

Andy Nolch is an idiot. Alanzo, I am really surprised you fell for this.

Virginia McClaughry
Guest

So…what. We should just decide he’s nothing BUT an unfortunate and clueless idiot and walk away all pleased with ourselves with how we figured them out to OUR satisfaction? Now we really sound like social scientists.

Did the guy say some things that I thought were idiotic? Yea. But I’m not ready to totally dismiss him like he’s something on the bottom of your shoe purely on that basis alone.

Eileen
Guest

Hi Virginia,
Not walking away all pleased with myself, and I don’t think he is something on the bottom of my shoe. But I am too old to listen to nonsense, and gave up on trying to change people years ago.
Why I call him an idiot:
… He laughed about Heber and Shelley “disappearing” and his only response was what a cool religion Scientology is…
…He disparaged people who want money for things like houses and cars. Said money should be used for going up the bridge…
…He mocked and ridiculed Chris Shelton’s videos, then throws up terribly produced videos. I’m not a fan of Chris Shelton, but he is trying to seriously add to the dialogue about Scientology… one hour of YouTube tutorials would have made the quality better.

I believe when we observe something idiotic we should say so, otherwise the influence can spread.
Also, I was surprised at how Oracle thought it was great, felt badly that it drove Gib away.
I’m sorry that my response made you feel I was acting superior, I am pretty outspoken.
Eileen

Virginia McClaughry
Guest

Thanks so much for this Eileen, I don’t disagree with pointing out something idiotic, not at all, and even without seeing the context myself yet, I would tentatively agree with you about most of these things you list but not wholeheartedly because I haven’t seen it for myself.

As to you being outspoken, I usually like outspoken people, and I like hearing what you have to say because you say things that make me look at what my perspective is and/or why I have it. I think that’s a good thing, and you are not mean about it when we might not share a view – also a good thing.

I was more responding on them point of calling him an idiot flat out I guess, rather than focusing on the what of what he did because I’m not quite “there’ on calling him an idiot. I have called people idiots myself, on many occasions, including my own children when I felt it was warranted, so it’s not as if this is something I never do.

I hope this makes some kind of sense to you…lol…if it doesn’t let me know and I’ll try to clarify further.

Eileen
Guest

Hi Virginia,
One of the things I like about this site is the respectful disagreement and the opposing viewpoints that don’t create animosity. People here seem to be genuinely wrestling with complex concepts (including me).
It’s interesting that you and Alanzo share a more tolerant opinion of Andy’s laughter (sort of like the laughter at an inside joke). I (and a number of other people) did not pick up on any sense that he was laughing over how outrageous it was, to me he seemed to be laughing in admiration for Scientology (which he does practice).
It goes to show how two people can see the same thing and get completely different communications.
I’m not familiar with your blog (or your husband’s videos). I will be sure to check them out!
Eileen

Virginia McClaughry
Guest

It’s nice, isn’t it? More like real life talking with people, people like you.

Richard
Guest

Virginia and Eileen – Another point is that in the good old days (pre DM) things were more light hearted. Yes, gotta Clear The Planet, but it wasn’t as deadly serious as it apparently is presented to current scn-ists. Scn blogs can also take on that deadly serious tone. Scn must be deleted – now.

In between picking fights with people (lol) Alanzo is presenting topics which go into more worthwhile discussion.

Virginia McClaughry
Guest

or I should say SOME social scientists.

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